Curse

bhavv · Aug 20, 2008, 08:38 AM // 08:38

When EOTN first came out, Mhenlo was given LoD as his elite. To a lot of people,this was a very important skill for him to have, due to all the regions that had mass burning and AoE damage in EOTN - Basically the AI had much more powerful skills then in the standalone campains, and to compenstate, the henchmen were given brilliant skill bars.

After LoD's initial nerf to a 2s cast time, the PVE community cried out to this skill having been nerfed to hell for PVE. Anet listened to these complaints, and changed Mhenlo's elite to WoH. While WoH is a very effective elite, it doesnt work as efficiently in this situation as LoD.

Firstly, WoH is not a suitable heal to use as a counter to the party wide degeneration that is found in EOTN. LoD is the healing elite of choice in areas like Kathandrax, and Destroyer missions towards the end of the game.

Secondly, and this is also true for Nightfall, having a 2 monk backline with both WoH and ZB is just ridiculous. The two skills work horribly together, and this is especially understandable if you have monked yourself in a team with either both WoH and ZB, or two copies of the same elite. The reason being is when a party members health drops to below 50%, both the ZB and WoH monk think 'Oh Sh*t', and use their elite to heal this party member. As a result, only the first monk recieves the below 50% benefit of the heal, while the other just wastes his / her energy from the heal.

The same principle applies to the henchmen, except of course, they dont complain about it. But I am complaining about it on Mhenlo's behalf (lol).

Simple solution - Give Mhenlo in EOTN his LoD back as it has long been buffed back to a 1s cast time, and if anyone from Anet follows or understands any of this post, then please go ahead and give him LoD in Nightfall as well.

LoD + ZB = Right.
WoH + ZB = Roffle, a nubs attempt to synergise skills.

DarkNecrid · Aug 20, 2008, 08:41 AM // 08:41

Uhm.

WoH is better than LOD. Even LOD (PvE).

Um...

yeah....

I don't have much else to say except /notsigned because LOD is still godawful. A half way decent monk with WoH can keep up with the degeneration, and if you're using ZB with WoH then that is your fault. There are other good elites. Like [Restore Condition].

Zapper901 · Aug 20, 2008, 08:49 AM // 08:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

Uhm.

WoH is better than LOD. Even LOD (PvE).

Um...

yeah....

I don't have much else to say except /notsigned because LOD is still godawful. A half way decent monk with WoH can keep up with the degeneration, and if you're using ZB with WoH then that is your fault. There are other good elites. Like [Restore Condition].

Yes and as we all know, you can tell henchmen what skills to use *sarcasm*. The TC's point is that Mhenlo uses WoH, and Lina uses ZB, and that they do not work well together.

Guess I'll /sign this, because I do know how annoying it is for both monks with WoH/ZB to heal the same guy, especially if I'm the one using ZB.

-Makai- · Aug 20, 2008, 08:50 AM // 08:50

/signed

Even though [protective was kaolai] never leaves my bar, it would still be appreciated. Correct me if I'm wrong, but heroes/henchmen don't use WoH and ZB correctly.

poasiods · Aug 20, 2008, 08:53 AM // 08:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

Uhm.

WoH is better than LOD. Even LOD (PvE).

Um...

yeah....

I don't have much else to say except /notsigned because LOD is still godawful. A half way decent monk with WoH can keep up with the degeneration, and if you're using ZB with WoH then that is your fault. There are other good elites. Like [Restore Condition].

Yeah...
So, the game assigns the two healing henchmen ZB and WoH... It's definitely his fault if he decides to bring the only two henchmen who are monks and they happen to be using ZB and WoH, right?

I think it'd make a whole lot more sense for Mhenlo to have LoD back. With the huge variety of party-wide degen constantly inflicted in EotN, Mhenlo looks like a tard spamming WoH and DK on 8 people. Surely, there's a reason the producers originally placed LoD as Mhenlo's elite. Of course, he could always be substituted for a hero, but changing WoH to LoD certainly wouldn't hurt. I flinch everytime I see Lina waste 10 mana on someone who just got hit by WoH.

aurorascion · Aug 20, 2008, 09:07 AM // 09:07

Unyielding Aura is the new Rock Star of pve. Awesome elite now with the new buff. The healing bonus is a must for heal party and even though it doesn't speed up casting it allows you to rez halfway across a zone if you want. You can put in healers haste in your rez slot and boom you are good to go.

I dunno if a henchie AI could handle it, but I don;t use henchie monks, just thought i'd give a shout out to a skill that I use when I back line as a pve healer.

<3 the rezzing If you haven't tried it you really need to give this skill a go.

Squishy ftw · Aug 20, 2008, 09:23 AM // 09:23

/signed

I've always liked LoD and sure wouldn't mind having Mhenlo run it again in EOTN.

bhavv · Aug 20, 2008, 09:32 AM // 09:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

and if you're using ZB with WoH then that is your fault. There are other good elites. Like [Restore Condition].

I can really choose what elites the hench monks have, o' rly?

Lern 2 read b4 pressing reply.

LoD still heals the full party for more then WoH does. It has always been much more efficient for the energy cost then WoH is, especally when paired up with ZB.

IMO both Dismiss Condition and Mend Body and Soul are superior in PVE to RC in many ways because the heal is not situational and can still work if there are no conditions on the target. Also, foul feast on a necro hero >>> RC and a wasted elite slot. Heck, you can even use draw conditions.

TBH, I dont know any good players that use RC in PVE. Even in PVP it is rarely used. Condition removal is always done a lot more easier and effectively with non elite skills as this saves the elite slot for something else.

cellardweller · Aug 20, 2008, 09:41 AM // 09:41

No TY. I much prefer WoH on his bar.

bhavv · Aug 20, 2008, 09:53 AM // 09:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sante_Kelm

/signed

Even though [protective was kaolai] never leaves my bar, it would still be appreciated. Correct me if I'm wrong, but heroes/henchmen don't use WoH and ZB correctly.

I always try to have two copies of PWK as well on my N/Rt's. They also have spirit light, which they are able to use far more efficiently then the AI can handle WoH and ZB. You are right about them not using it correctly. More often then not, they are cast on a target with more then 50% health, the <50% health condition is very poorly used by the AI.

Mhenlo never did badly with spamming LOD though, plus with its condition removed now, it makes a brilliant healing elite for the AI.

Even the new healing burst would be better then WoH on the AI. (Clue to give factions healer hench Healing Burst instead of Blessed Light on their already highly expensive bars).

I will test the AI and WoH later on for you by going into temple of balth with Burning Speed and a hero with just WoH and see how he uses it.

Luminarus · Aug 20, 2008, 09:54 AM // 09:54

I think its not that big a deal, but imo all the pve henchies need an overhaul because mostly there elites are pretty subpar considering options. (EG Give Cynn Savannah Heat in NF instead of Mind Burn, etc)

Ultima pyromancer · Aug 20, 2008, 09:55 AM // 09:55

Wow.. i didnt think henchmen actually had skills equipped O.o

/signed anyhoo

Da Rk Bl Ad E · Aug 20, 2008, 10:06 AM // 10:06

I don't actually use mhenlo...but /signed for the lulz,

and lod isn't a bad skill in pve, but like most skills it is situational.

[dismiss condition] > [restore condition]
(for pve anyway)

DarkNecrid · Aug 20, 2008, 10:54 AM // 10:54

Yes you can choose what elite the henchmen monks use.

It's called heroes.

bhavv · Aug 20, 2008, 12:17 PM // 12:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

Yes you can choose what elite the henchmen monks use.

It's called heroes.

Henchmen monks arent heroes.

No one that is good at this game will use monk heroes when H/H'ing.

We only have 3 hero slots available, the rest have to filled with henchmen, and the offensive henchmen are far worse then the monk hench are (except for EOTN and Erys Vasburg).

Your opinions are just ridiculous.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

I will test the AI and WoH later on for you by going into temple of balth with Burning Speed and a hero with just WoH and see how he uses it.

I just tested monk heroes with just WoH and ZB and used Bip. They still use them all the time when my health is at 66% after one Bip.

Both the elites are useless for the AI, but no one really cares to realise. They should ideally never use WoH or ZB on party menbers with over 50% health and use another heal instead, but they dont do this. They will happily spam away with either WoH or ZB on party members at 66% health.

I am doing it again with Sig of Devotion / Orison of Healing and WoH on a hero. I use Bip once and I get healed by any of them, but WoH still gets used occasionally even if either of the other two skills are recharged.

t00115577 · Aug 20, 2008, 12:24 PM // 12:24

lol pls stop being silly, LoD is a naff elite, WoH owns it.

I can understand not wanting a ZB and WoH backline, but just take mhenlo and a monk hero, then give the hero whatever you want.

bhavv · Aug 20, 2008, 12:43 PM // 12:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by t00115577

lol pls stop being silly, LoD is a naff elite, WoH owns it.

Please grow up and get better at the game.

LoD = 5e for 70x 8 healing = 560 heal

WoH = 5e for 130 healing, +100 if the condition is met, which henchmen AI is poor at meeting.

LoD outclasses WoH for efficiency on energy cost to amount healed by a great margin, this is why the skill becasme so popular and had to be nerfed for PVP.

WoH is a great elite for human monks, but NOT for the AI. Neither is ZB, but people that dont H/H dont realise this.

The AI is not the same as a human Monk. A human monk is better off with an elite like woh because they can use it properly and prioritise casting it on party members below 50% health. The AI is better off with whatever spells are better for spamming without a condition. LoD and the new Healing Burst would work far better on the AI as opposed to WoH because they are just as effective when used on party members with over 50% health.

Da Rk Bl Ad E · Aug 20, 2008, 12:58 PM // 12:58

Lol, Woh is good because It's a large spammable heal with a good energy cost. The extra heal <50% is just an added bonus.

MagmaRed · Aug 20, 2008, 01:09 PM // 13:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

No one that is good at this game will use monk heroes when H/H'ing.

Thank you for telling me I am not good at the game. I know titles do not indicate a persons ability to play well, but I do have 26 titles maxed, including Legendary Vanquisher and Legendary Guardian. I did about 90% of those 2 titles with H+H. I also always take Dunkoro for healing unless Tahlkora is required (like Grand Court).

LoD was good, then became bad, and now is alright. I was slightly upset when they changed the skill, as I never used it myself, but was just starting to play with it. Even my Dunkoro builds never use it.

Hench are not supposed to have GOOD skill bars though. They are supposed to have decent ones. With very few exceptions, the hench all have decent skill bars. They can get the job done, although maybe not as fast as a hero or player would.

If you want the hench to have GOOD skill bars, then take heroes and other humans. Hench are meant to be a back-up for when you can't find what you need.

I wouldn't care if they did change Mhenlo back to LoD, but...

/unsigned

because I don't think it is NEEDED.

rohara · Aug 20, 2008, 01:11 PM // 13:11

no ty, LoD is a crap skill.

and /signed for unyielding aura being the new rock star of pve - wow! me and a a guildie recently took our merry band of heroes to slaver's exile and unyielding aura helped quite a bit.